Of late I have been enthralled by something fairly new to me,  Men’s Rights Advocates (MRA) and Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW).  These are groups of men with similar, though not apparently the same goals.  These goals seem to range from protecting men from the “oppressive legal system of divorce court,” to “ghosting” and having nothing to do with women at all. It is rather difficult to ascertain a centralized theme in either group effectively.  Most of my understanding comes from places like Spearhead and MensNewsDaily and my ill received interest in happybachelor.proboards.com and MGTOW.proboards.com  While I certainly don’t always (read normally) agree with the opinions and thoughts especially on the proboards sites, it has been enlightening (and frightning) for me to know that there are men out there like this.  There is quite a bit of misogyny in some of these groups, just as there is an equal amount of misandry in many Feminist groups.

Let me delve into what I know about the groups.  First up are the MRA men.  These men seem to be the sane ones of the genre, though not all supporters can claim lucidity equally effectively.  I have had a brush with MRA before, I naievely thought they were mostly concerned with child visitation,  punative divorce courts, and false rape/domestic violence accusations, which are certainly issues facing men in this day and age.  These men mostly seem to want to champion Father’s rights to see their kids and equality in divorce courts.  On the surface this does seem reasonable and I for one think if you are going to have kids then they should have access to both parents.  I abhor women that use kids to punish men, just as I do for men that use aggression to control women.  However, there is also a darker undertone to the group.  A portion of the commentators on Spearhead and MND seem to want to roll back civilization to a “might makes right” or a system that are much more Darwinistic than a civil society would tolerate.  Amongst the comments I have read are things like “Women must be grateful for male accomplishments and behave accordingly or be punished.”(Spearhead). That seems a bit too John Norman Gorean for me as a political philosophy. Globalman has a particularly interesting take on how rights are determined and defended.  “And so we have had at LEAST 10,000 years of societal brainwashing that MEN have to PROTECT wimmin and children.” (Spearhead) It is brainwashing to protect your partner and offspring?  I am not sure I want to be a part of the world he seems to be indicate.  I am a darwinist by nature and given my genetic talents I could easily compete in the world view that many of these men seem to advocate, but why?  I like civilization, and not just the Sid Meyers version.  I enjoy the comforts of women and an orderly society.  I have noticed that the Libertarian mindset that seems to run rampant and often roughshod over some of these discussions is uniquely tailored to men.  Many men see ourselves as “rugged individualists” and thus a form of government under the Libertarian construct seems to appeal to us by the basic principles, however Libertarianism has its flaws and sadly most are on display in the MRA comments sections.

I would enjoy some intelligent MRA’s to explain for me their vision of the future if they were in control.  I would like to be shown their Utopia or whatever they choose to term their ideal future.  Right now from what I can gather it is very much a matter open to debate, even amongst the faithful. The only articulation of goals I have found is MRA-principles-and-goals/.

Now on to Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW). While researching some travel and lifestyle options, I ran across a board that was called happybachelor.proboards.com.  This ovbiously sounds like a place someone like me would enjoy the virtual camaraderie from other “men that have gone their own way” (MGTOW).  My error was seen rather quickly.  These men weren’t going their own way due to a personal understanding of there own psychology and/or self actualization.  Oh no, these men were pissed off…at women.  They didn’t go there own way by choice, at least not their first choice.  These men have admittedly been hurt and damaged with it comes to women.  Many of them relate stories of sociopathic ex-gf’s, or almost complete isolation from women.  You will find the entire cast of characters you would expect, the nice guy, the loner, the bitter divorcee, the quiet guy that only had one gf that dumped him for some guy with more to offer (or taller), the frustrated family men that have that desire to have babies but can’t find a “worthy” woman to impregnate, ect.   There is an emerging term for these kind of men, Omega men. Most of us have heard the terms Type A and Type B personalities.  Those terms in evolutionary psychology have come to mean type A (alpha) personalities are aggressive and go after what they want in a particular arena. Type B (beta) personalities are more typically more laid back than Alpha’s.  however there is apparently a “new man” emerging, a new species if you will.  Enter Omega men. Here is  a functional definition of them: Omega males – “generally the true nice guys… but also what we call ‘losers’ Generally avoided, and the next day hardly anyone remembers they were even there. The guy who is almost guaranteed not to have sex that night, even if a women by luck takes a fancy to him, because his model of the world isn’t such that he can take a girl home and just have sex with her if he so chooses.” The discussion of social hierarchy and evolutionary psychology is fascinating to me, but probably dull to most that will read this, so in short these are the guys in the sixteen candles geek line up, but now they are older, mean and have a beef with women.

I was immediately struck by the ironically vitriolic and hate filled messages on a message board called HappyBachelor.  Common insults such as “slut” “whorebag” “STD repository” were a sampling of some of the colorful names they gave to mostly American Women (AW) or more generally to women in the “Anglosphere” (almost all westernized countries).  And while most people would simply think this board is a few disgrunteld,and thankfully celebate men, I would provide a bit of insight.  This board is a part of a larger (albeit seemingly not populous) movement within and of MRA.   My readings and subsequent message board registration was part of this research.  I found that MGTOW message isn’t about men’s rights and protecting men from predatory women, but a large net of derision cast on all women, usually based on one. The MGTOW websites are filled with men that hate women and see no personal responsibility in the situations that deteriorated into a living hell for them. Seems like these MGTOW guys and Feminazi’s have something in common.  They are the different sides to the same coin.  Misandry and mysoginy battling one another.  The Yin and Yang of gender hate.

Many of these men believe that women are inferior by nature.  Here is a quote “It took a great deal of experience with women, in the workplace as well as in dating, to make us realize that in fact, women are very different from men, and in most respects inferior. Most feminists are straight women, so you’ll just have to take my word for this: having sex with women does not in any way enhance respect for women. Quite the contrary.” (HappyBachelor)  That is just one sample of the elucidation available by these Happybachelors.  If you are particularly interested Google F. Roger Devlin “PhD” and his cannon for the movement.  It was enlightening and simultaneously frighteningly retarded.  His  Sexual Utopia in power is particularly insightful to the mindset of these Omega men. (Sexual Utopia) I encourage the reading of his works just to acquaint oneself with the philosophy.  These men seem to be championing a resurgence of the 1950′s housewife.  Those that know me would probably take note that I myself have referenced that same ideal before as well.  The difference is choice.  I would want a woman to pick that life and enjoy it.  These men want to force society back into that mold.  They think of women as “perpetual children” and want laws to reflect that, i.e. no property or voting rights.  Time to get back in the kitchen and bake something.  I am sure there are degrees of this ideology and probably some more moderate people.  But most of the reasonable voices seem to be hiding or are being drowned out, much like most women are in hiding or more likely ignoring the more militant Feminism branches.  And on the “internets” we all know those who scream the loudest are right…lol

While I see many themes running through these groups, I want to cover some of the more common ones.  First understand these people are usually traditionalists which is normally code for Christians or at least the traditional family roles often supported by quoting scripture.  So while I will fall short of calling them “Fundimentalist Christians,” they would often find their views compatible with that belief, minus the humility and “love thy neighbor” criteria.  As I mentioned before another strong thread running through these groups is the libertarian world view.   This maybe the more extreme of the libertarian mindset as I have seen and understand that group to stand for. However I see the same language about “big bad government,” “facsism,” and “oppression” that seems to be tenants of some of the libertarian movement.

I am not sure if the MGTOWers have any goals other than to stay away from women, but if they do it has not been articulated on any of their websites at least not in a manner which I could ascertain.  I also welcome these men to show me their ideal world and see if it is even achievable.

Maybe someone from one of these groups can sell me on their idea of how things should be, but until then I remain skeptical that they have a better worldview than most of the people I know.

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

When I first read this it was of great amusement as I am a proponent of seduction.  Seduction is a set of skills that can “lead one astray” usually to some enjoyable sexual encounter.  These skills and abilities are more than just “how to get laid” however.  They are a tool set for influence and often power over people.  And as with any powerful tool, they use of it can be good or evil depending on the person wielding it.  However I must state the tools themselves are morally neutral.  The motives and actions of the person using the tools are where the morality is displayed.

Women have traditionally been the gender of seduction.  Robert Greene’s The Art of Seduction, is a wonderful read on the history of seduction and the reasons women were the early fans of the Crimson Arts, as I have recently heard it called.  However, men have always been interested in anything that furthered the access to sex.  Therefore we have historical examples (if often mostly myth) in the likes of Cassanova and Don Juan, as well as a host of other men like Benjamin Disraeli who though not much to look at could apparentlycharm the paint off walls.  So seduction is for both men and women, and clearly works for both genders.

Much has been said on “game” which is simply another way of explaining seduction in more concrete terms of evolutionary psychology and technical terms which men particularly enjoy and women often find off-putting.   I would like to offer a personal observation on Game and why I think it is important to have and employ.

The first reason for game is obvious.  The better you are at charming the opposite gender the better your chances of survival and replication, ie sex and offspring.  This is basic biology for men, the more women you have sex with the better the likelihood of children and your genetic legacy will live on.  I know very few men that think of it in such stark terms.  More often this “drive” is simply stated as sex drive, which is very powerful and visual in men.  Seduction often was the method that could get a comely female in a mindset for a pleasureable physical encounter.  Sadly though, for men this is often a skill not passed from father to son, or even from mentor to student, men often are said to “have it or not.”  This is of course simply not the case.   Men of all walks of life can learn (have learned) to be seductive.  The skill acquisition is not easy for sure, but it isn’t a curse from some sky fairy if one isn’t  a “natural.”  Most of us are not born with the skills to drive a car, write or type, or even keep themselves hygienic.  These are skills we learn by observing, collecting information, replicating the successful experiments of others.  Seduction or Game is no different.  Women on the other side can use seduction to find a man that she is interested in and then keep him.  Most women are much more interested in keeping men than finding them.  A decent resource for this is the Ladies over at GirlGame (http://girlgame.wordpress.com/).  Most of the advise to women comes in the form of the same stuff your Grandmother might say but updated with some modern spin.  There are plenty of resources online, in print, and even in evidence in pop culture of how to seduce the object of one’s desire. I might cover that in another blog, but for now lets move on to another reason for the Crimson Arts.

Another reason to learn to seduce is to simply get to know people intimately.  Seduction certainly  has a sexual component to it.  However the basics of the skills are the same for good interpersonal skills we see preached by Dale Carnegie in “How to Win Friends and Influence People” as well as a slew of other “relationship authors” such as John Gray, Anthony Robbins, and a whole host of gurus in the human potential movement.  Even though the focus of Game is to get a person interested in you, it is often a way to get to know if you want anything to do with that person .  This is often why I am amused by both men and women who vilify Game.  They usually vainly attempt to discredit the skills by saying it is manipulative and self serving.  Again I will remind my readers that the skills themselves are morally neutral.  They are not inherently evil or good, only the person using them can be seen as good or evil.

Seduction can be used to bring people you want to get to know more about closer to you.  Or it can be used as a screening tool for people around you that are looking for something you are not and avoid those relationships if you are not “in” for what that person is looking for.  Seduction is still a two way street.  The person working on seducing and the person willing to be seduced.   For women this provides a way to know the character of the man that interests you.  If you meet a guy that is very obviously comfortable around women and used to getting feminine attentions, I would suggest you be careful.  He might be a player, cad, rogue, or scoundrel.  Or he might be a normal guy who has had good women in his past that showed him how women think and now is looking for Ms. Right.  Time and the chase will often reveal who he is, PAY ATTENTION!  And lets be honest most women can spot a player a mile away by the time they are 21.  For Men seduction offers the ability to see if a woman is “worth” committing to for a relationship.  Yes, ladies, quality men will require you to do more than exist to even consider committing in this age of gold-diggers, no fault divorce,  punitive divorce courts and often sexless marriages.  So, while I don’t share some men’s opinions on the state of women in the “anglosphere,”  I do understand how they might arrive there, and Ladies you will do well to understand it too, if you do want a good man.  Seduction is a very powerful tool in dividing the wheat from the chaff in the dating arena, that is if you know how to use it properly, which brings me to the title of this blog.

Seduciary Responsibility.  This gentle readers, is part of my reason for starting this blog.  I believe that seduction is one of the most thrilling and fun parts of life.  I love the dance of it all, the stimulus/response matrix the probability of outcome, while never expecting.  It is all very thrilling to me.  However I do believe that there is harm that can be done if these skills are used irresponsibly.  For example I, for one, never date virgins.  They do not bring a part of an adult relationship that I require to the table.  I require the assumption of sex in my “non-platonic friend” female relationships. Virgins, unless they come to me desiring to lose it with full knowledge of who I am and what I am about, are forbidden for me.   They become too attached, and while I would enjoy showing them all the earthly delights I have learned, I know that the situation is far too emotional for her well being or my patience.   I have established this rule for me, as I have seen girls (especially young) that when they lose their virginity get emotionally scared from what they though of as a “relationship” and the guy had other motives.  This is part of the seduciary responsibility of the skills of seduction as it relates to being single.  I in essence try to “Do no harm” and “leave them better than I found them.”  An Ethical Slut if you will.

As the quote above indicates, the seduciary responsibilites do not end at consummation, or even conception for that matter.  Even in LTRs the job of seduction is never really done.  Each partner must do their part to keep the sexual tension up and the game afoot.  We all fail at this from time to time.  however it is, I think, an important part of LTRs and if neglected long enough often the cause of the death of a relationship.   For those that do not want to put forth the effort to maintain a relationship then avoidance is probably the best route to take.  I often see this lack of seduciary responcibility in women as manifest after marriage by ever shortening hair, weight gain and the ever present track suit and sweats.  In men I see it in some of the same ways (weight gain and poor style) but also in what I call the “victory lap.”  Guys once they have wooed a woman will sometimes forget that the wooing never stops or she will get bored and leave your dull emotionless existence.  I have heard some men say women are hypergamous, which “is the act or practice of seeking a relationship with a person of equal or higher socioeconomic status, or caste status than oneself.”  These men get upset that she might actually decide someone is better than them and move on.  I am not sure why these men get so upset.  Don’t we all, men and women, want the best for ourselves? Whatever that is?  I know I do.  Is there some issue with these men about being able to keep up and compete with other men? Or do they think once the choice of relationship is made that happiness is irrelevant or worse illogical? While I do, in the context of marriage see the problems of if a woman (or man) decides they want something new or better in a marriage as it brings a legal ramifications to both.  However if seduction is employed though out the marriage, then the risk of this is lowered, though not eliminated as humans are complex emotional creatures.  I see marriage as a rareified and odd social construct that I  will deal with the legalities of Marriage and Divorce in a latter blog.

I do hope I did some justice to this topic,

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri

If you have found this, my drop of water in the Fountain of all Knowledge known as the Interwebs, thank you for visiting.  I will be posting as often as time allows and will be linking blogs to mine that offer discussion and debate on various topics, not name calling and asinine arguments.  I hope those that stop by will find my thoughts interesting and stimulating. 

Regards,

Mr. Alighieri